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Ladybbird · 06-05-12, 21:38

The Pirate Party is Gaining Momentum around the World.

5 May, 2012, Guardian UK

In Germany and Austria Pirates have good chance of entering the national parliament in the next election, and in the UK things are picking up steam as well.

In this weeks local elections in the UK, Pirate Party leader Loz Kaye picked up 5% of the vote, beating the Lib Dems.

This result in Manchester is a record for the UK Pirates, but not one that is supposed to last long according to the party.

Quote:
“This is just the start. We would like to thank all the people who got in touch with us and our candidates, our supporters and activists who worked on these elections and especially those people who put their trust in us and chose to vote Pirate,” they write.
Guardian UK
END

The Pirate Party has six candidates in the UK, in Manchester, Glasgow and Edinburgh, I dont think they will gain a seat at the next election, but you never know

Anything is better than Cameron

photostill · 07-05-12, 04:19

The Pirate Party started out with a very limited scope; mainly copyright. While that is a worthy target for returning some sanity back to what has been hijacked, it's too limited for a political party.

As an example of that, here in the states, in 30 years 15 copyright bills have come through. What do you do with the rest of the time as a political force? It's not enough activity by itself to keep the party active and interesting. Which is one of the main reasons why the copywrong groups have gotten as far as they have. Face it, copyright isn't very glamorous nor exciting. Because of that, they've been able to slide under the radar for a long time. People are finally waking up to the fact that were it not for copyright pushing limits on freedoms, they wouldn't be hearing of things like ACTA and SOPA.

There's another driving force making them popular since they had to take up other issues. One that isn't just limited to one or two countries. Citizenry on both sides of the pond are getting fed up with the corruption, the lying, the steady pushing of bills made for law consideration in the back room where no one has any input. Transparency used to be something that was paid attention to. You, as a citizen could find out what your representatives were up to in the bill making department. You could find out about what bills were of interest to you and what was being done about it.

In today's world, much of this is now being done behind closed doors. That's one of the prime reasons why people are saying that this country and many others are all headed in the wrong direction.

Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about the common practices of fascism. In that, he listed 14 different things that are common to fascism. Look at this list and think of your country. See how many look familiar in the sense of where laws are going and how your government is acting.

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Supremacy of the Military
Controlled Mass Media
Rampant Sexism
Obsession with National Security
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Corporate Power is Protected
Labor Power is Suppressed
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fraudulent Elections

These traits were common in the era of the following fascist regimes.

Hitler of Germany
Mussolini of Italy
Franco of Spain
Suharto of Indonesia
Pinochet of Chile

Does any of this sound like modern day? Here is where The Pirate Party is picking up votes. Mainly transparency of governance.

Ladybbird · 10-05-12, 22:46

They have won more since I posted this report......

Ladybbird · 11-05-12, 02:04

The Pirate Party continues to gain more supporters, in many countries;

Congratulations On First Elections, Greek Pirate Party

Rick Falkvinge, The Pirate Party.

While the Germans voted their Piratenpartei into Parliament in Schleswig-Holstein last Sunday, the Greeks also went to the polling stations. The Greek Pirate Party did an amazing first election.

The Greek Pirate Party, Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας, was founded on January 14 this year. To get 32,487 votes less than four months later – just over half a percent of the Greek votes – is nothing short of phenomenal. Even breaking through to mainstream awareness in four months is phenomenal.
It should be noted that the distance between nothing and 0.5 per cent is much larger than the distance between 0.5 and 5 — once you start hitting 2-3 per cent, you get your own bar in the polls, and become “electable”. You have a shot at parliament, so you’re not a wasted vote anymore.
The Greek PP has posted a letter thanking all 32,487 citizens for the confidence. Well done, and classy.
I had the privilege of meeting some of the activists in the Greek PP while I was in Prague last month, at the Pirate Parties International meeting. On that meeting, our Greek brothers and sisters were also taken up in the community.

I think this signifies the depth and breadth of the Pirate Party community and the strength of the underbrush that we come from. Greece is quite diverse from Sweden, where the movement started six years ago, and yet the same political movement can make quite rapid advances in Greece, too. It’s like the difference between Germany’s Berlin and Saarland elections, which were also different and day as night, and still, the Pirate Party prevailed.

I’m really looking forward to the next five years. In the meantime,,,,,Συγχαρητήρια, Ελλάδα.

Ladybbird · 15-05-12, 01:38

German Pirate Party Scores Fourth Consecutive Election Win

Posted: 13 May 2012 Rick Falkvinge, Founder of The Pirate Party.

Germany:

Today, North Rhine-Westphalia in Germany went to the polls. This election is always closely watched in Germany, as it is the country’s most populous state. As expected, the Pirate Party won seats and entry into parliament – again – making this the Piratenpartei‘s fourth consecutive win.

After Berlin (8.9%), Saarland (7.4%), and Schleswig-Holstein (8.2%), the time had come to Nordrhein-Westfalen. As the exit polls were just presented, it is clear that the German Pirate Party has achieved its goal and secured seats in a fourth parliament: the exit polls indicate 7.5%, well clearing the five-percent hurdle for entry, and predicting 18 new Pirate Members of Parliament.

As the night progresses, and the actual votes are counted, this number will adjust somewhat. But the exit polls are always precise enough to give the end result with at most one percent unit of deviation in either direction.

This has a number of interesting ramifications. The immediate question is whether the expected weakening of the FDP, Angela Merkel’s junior coalition partner, will cause Germany’s government to collapse prematurely. That’s still too early to say – and with them staying in both the Schleswig-Holstein and Nordrhein-Westfalen parliaments (exit polls indicate 8.5% here), the risk of a premature collapse has lessened somewhat.

So we’re realistically looking at one more state election – Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony) – before Germany, Europe’s most populous country, goes to elect its parliament in late summer of 2013.

(Germany is a federation of 16 states, each approximately the size of a more normal European country or a typical American state. The state voting today, Nordrhein-Westfalen, is the most populous of them with about 18 million people.)

This leads us to the interesting question – why did Germany of all countries have such breakthrough success with their Pirate Party? I can see five reasons.

The first reason is that the German Piratenpartei was long-term from the get-go. Where most pirate parties are started like any internet project – “we’re going to change the world come next weekend” – the Germans knew they would be around for a long time, and invested early in the organizational foundation for that.

The second reason is timing and ripples on the water. When the Swedish Piratpartiet had its breakthrough in the European Parliament, and was in media all over the world, the German Piratenpartei was able to exploit that momentum when a local minister named Ursula wanted to create a net censorship to fight CP. T-shirts with the name “Zensursula” were common, zensur being German for censorship. The goverment did not win the narrative on that one, and the idea of censorship was abandoned while the Piratenpartei raked in new members. I’d say that this was the breakthrough in activist critical mass.

The third reason is Germany’s federal party support. Having won 1% in the European elections and 2% in the federal elections in 2009 entitled the Piratenpartei to considerable governmental funding, which is paid out to all parties that beat the half-percent mark in elections. This has allowed the Piratenpartei to buy themselves the appearance of an established party out in the streets – their posters and banners are everywhere on paid billboards, as well as on streetlights and more activist-associated locations. But all of it looks professional, yet with a new message. It looks electable, which is key.

The fourth reason is the Piratenpartei‘s early broadening of the party platform. In Sweden, we learned the hard way in 2010 that not enough people will vote a party with a narrow platform to the general parliament. The European parliament was fine, but not the Swedish one. While we were busy running an election campaign, the German pirate party were busy discussing if – and if so, how – their program should be broadened. This was rewarded with 15 seats in the Berlin parliament, which leads me to…

The fifth reason is Berlin and the breakthrough there. In hindsight, Berlin was the perfect breakthrough location. With its characteristics of a melting pot between the government-suspicious East Europe and the progressive West Europe, mixed with a dash of political forward-thinking in the city culture itself, it would have been an obvious election to bet on for a breakthrough. But when it happened last September, it changed the game – and the media spotlight was taken so well care of, that the Piratenpartei managed to convert the progressive Berlin votes to enough votes in the industrial and traditional Saarland to enter into that parliament too.

The Berlin victory of 8.9% was the definite breakthrough into mainstream awareness, and here we are.

photostill · 15-05-12, 02:36

I've sort of steered clear of political topics simply because I believe I read in the site rules that it shouldn't be discussed. Still, I'm gonna go out on a limb here diverge from this topic with some of the general crap going on this election season in the US and then return to this topic now posted.

Both Obama and Romney are trying their best to distance themselves from their past record while at the same time wanting to claim just the pluses as they run against each other. Problem with that is both have enough dead weight in their past records to sink a whale. When you really get down to it, there is not a lot of difference between the two candidates. You really have to ask what the facts are when you hear some of the rhetoric gearing up for this election because there is a lot they neglect to say in their talking points that leads to pointing the guilty finger right back at themselves and their party rather than the way it is expressed. One such I heard the other day blamed Obama for the job situation in the economy but he failed to mention his own party was responsible for killing the funding for the program that was set up to provide jobs.

The problem here is what has been going on for the last bunch of election cycles and that's there is no valid candidate to pick from to vote for. Both have been bought and paid for and it matters not which gets into office as far as what will be done in the coming years after; only the flavor of how it is done.

The Republican party and all the talk show hosts on radio and tv are having one heck of a time trying to sell Romney. He has a serious deficit when it comes to generating excitement. Even his own party doesn't really want him. The talk shows were saying, "This is it", you have to accept Romney because he's the candidate. Maybe 8 different callers were all saying in essence, "We want someone else". It's a hard sell for either one of them for supporters.

What most of this is, is a reflection that the people here in the states have the same opinion as those in other countries such as Greece and France, with Germany and Italy soon to follow in elections. The established parties in power are taking a beating. They are being blamed in each country for the economic conditions now in existence as has happened all through election cycles in the past. Mostly this appears to be because the big finance and mega-corporations are in bed with the governments of each nation. People have had enough.

In the case of the US, there isn't any other choice but in the European countries where often you have multiple parties all running on different platforms, there is a choice and it's being made. As I stated earlier in this thread, transparency of government and what it is doing in the name of it's citizens is a biggy. This particular issue is a big driver along with the economic factors in changing the scope of elections. Early signs are that most of the parties in power will take a huge beating there. Here in the states I suspect that will show up as people not voting at all.

I personally am happy to see them being thrown out of power. Most of the politicians and their parties were the ones that set up all these circumstances that led to the problems we have today. The one thing that hasn't helped, is the US was dead in the middle of being the cause of many of the economic woes of other countries.

06-05-12, 21:38	#1
Ladybbird Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47,549 Thanks: 27,621 Thanked 14,458 Times in 10,262 Posts Awards Showcase Total Awards: 8	Pirate Party Breaks Election Records -UPDATE The Pirate Party is Gaining Momentum around the World. 5 May, 2012, Guardian UK In Germany and Austria Pirates have good chance of entering the national parliament in the next election, and in the UK things are picking up steam as well. In this weeks local elections in the UK, Pirate Party leader Loz Kaye picked up 5% of the vote, beating the Lib Dems. This result in Manchester is a record for the UK Pirates, but not one that is supposed to last long according to the party. Quote: “This is just the start. We would like to thank all the people who got in touch with us and our candidates, our supporters and activists who worked on these elections and especially those people who put their trust in us and chose to vote Pirate,” they write. Guardian UK END The Pirate Party has six candidates in the UK, in Manchester, Glasgow and Edinburgh, I dont think they will gain a seat at the next election, but you never know Anything is better than Cameron __________________ PUTIN TRUMP & Netanyahu Will Meet in HELL ..................*SHARKS are Closing in on TRUMP*.......................... *TRUMP WARNS; 'There'll Be a Bloodbath* If I Don't Get Elected'..MAGA - MyAssGotArrested...IT's COMING** PLEASE HELP THIS SITE..Click DONATE & Thanks to ALL Members of ... 1.. THIS SITE IS MORE THAN JUST WAREZ...& TO STOP SPAM-IF YOU WANT TO POST, YOUR FIRST POST MUST BE IN WELCOMES

07-05-12, 04:19	#2
photostill The Enigma Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 9,977 Thanks: 3,009 Thanked 1,524 Times in 928 Posts	re: Pirate Party Breaks Election Records -UPDATE The Pirate Party started out with a very limited scope; mainly copyright. While that is a worthy target for returning some sanity back to what has been hijacked, it's too limited for a political party. As an example of that, here in the states, in 30 years 15 copyright bills have come through. What do you do with the rest of the time as a political force? It's not enough activity by itself to keep the party active and interesting. Which is one of the main reasons why the copywrong groups have gotten as far as they have. Face it, copyright isn't very glamorous nor exciting. Because of that, they've been able to slide under the radar for a long time. People are finally waking up to the fact that were it not for copyright pushing limits on freedoms, they wouldn't be hearing of things like ACTA and SOPA. There's another driving force making them popular since they had to take up other issues. One that isn't just limited to one or two countries. Citizenry on both sides of the pond are getting fed up with the corruption, the lying, the steady pushing of bills made for law consideration in the back room where no one has any input. Transparency used to be something that was paid attention to. You, as a citizen could find out what your representatives were up to in the bill making department. You could find out about what bills were of interest to you and what was being done about it. In today's world, much of this is now being done behind closed doors. That's one of the prime reasons why people are saying that this country and many others are all headed in the wrong direction. Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about the common practices of fascism. In that, he listed 14 different things that are common to fascism. Look at this list and think of your country. See how many look familiar in the sense of where laws are going and how your government is acting. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause Supremacy of the Military Controlled Mass Media Rampant Sexism Obsession with National Security Religion and Government are Intertwined Corporate Power is Protected Labor Power is Suppressed Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Obsession with Crime and Punishment Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fraudulent Elections These traits were common in the era of the following fascist regimes. Hitler of Germany Mussolini of Italy Franco of Spain Suharto of Indonesia Pinochet of Chile Does any of this sound like modern day? Here is where The Pirate Party is picking up votes. Mainly transparency of governance. __________________ You can help this site, by clicking on the link below to buy a Premium Account. & Thank you for helping us. Click; Last edited by photostill; 07-05-12 at 11:02.

10-05-12, 22:46	#3
Ladybbird Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47,549 Thanks: 27,621 Thanked 14,458 Times in 10,262 Posts Awards Showcase Total Awards: 8	re: Pirate Party Breaks Election Records -UPDATE They have won more since I posted this report...... __________________ PUTIN TRUMP & Netanyahu Will Meet in HELL ..................*SHARKS are Closing in on TRUMP*.......................... *TRUMP WARNS; 'There'll Be a Bloodbath* If I Don't Get Elected'..MAGA - MyAssGotArrested...IT's COMING** PLEASE HELP THIS SITE..Click DONATE & Thanks to ALL Members of ... 1.. THIS SITE IS MORE THAN JUST WAREZ...& TO STOP SPAM-IF YOU WANT TO POST, YOUR FIRST POST MUST BE IN WELCOMES

11-05-12, 02:04	#4
Ladybbird Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47,549 Thanks: 27,621 Thanked 14,458 Times in 10,262 Posts Awards Showcase Total Awards: 8	re: Pirate Party Breaks Election Records -UPDATE The Pirate Party continues to gain more supporters, in many countries; Congratulations On First Elections, Greek Pirate Party Rick Falkvinge, The Pirate Party. While the Germans voted their Piratenpartei into Parliament in Schleswig-Holstein last Sunday, the Greeks also went to the polling stations. The Greek Pirate Party did an amazing first election. The Greek Pirate Party, *Κόμμα Πειρατών Ελλάδας, was founded on January 14 this year. To get 32,487 votes less than four months later – just over half a percent of the Greek votes – is nothing short of phenomenal. Even breaking through to mainstream awareness in four months is phenomenal. It should be noted that the distance between nothing and 0.5 per cent is much larger than the distance between 0.5 and 5 — once you start hitting 2-3 per cent, you get your own bar in the polls, and become “electable”. You have a shot at parliament, so you’re not a wasted vote anymore. The Greek PP has posted a letter thanking all 32,487 citizens for the confidence. Well done, and classy. I had the privilege of meeting some of the activists in the Greek PP while I was in Prague last month, at the Pirate Parties International meeting. On that meeting, our Greek brothers and sisters were also taken up in the community. I think this signifies the depth and breadth of the Pirate Party community and the strength of the underbrush that we come from. Greece is quite diverse from Sweden, where the movement started six years ago, and yet the same political movement can make quite rapid advances in Greece, too. It’s like the difference between Germany’s Berlin and Saarland elections, which were also different and day as night, and still, the Pirate Party prevailed. I’m really looking forward to the next five years. In the meantime,,,,,Συγχαρητήρια, Ελλάδα. __________________ PUTIN TRUMP & Netanyahu Will Meet in HELL* ..................*SHARKS are Closing in on TRUMP*.......................... *TRUMP WARNS; 'There'll Be a Bloodbath* If I Don't Get Elected'..MAGA - MyAssGotArrested...IT's COMING** PLEASE HELP THIS SITE..Click DONATE & Thanks to ALL Members of ... 1.. THIS SITE IS MORE THAN JUST WAREZ...& TO STOP SPAM-IF YOU WANT TO POST, YOUR FIRST POST MUST BE IN WELCOMES

15-05-12, 01:38	#5
Ladybbird Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 47,549 Thanks: 27,621 Thanked 14,458 Times in 10,262 Posts Awards Showcase Total Awards: 8	Re: Pirate Party Breaks Election Records -UPDATE German Pirate Party Scores Fourth Consecutive Election Win Posted: 13 May 2012 Rick Falkvinge, Founder of The Pirate Party. Germany: Today, North Rhine-Westphalia in Germany went to the polls. This election is always closely watched in Germany, as it is the country’s most populous state. As expected, the Pirate Party won seats and entry into parliament – again – making this the Piratenpartei‘s fourth consecutive win. After Berlin (8.9%), Saarland (7.4%), and Schleswig-Holstein (8.2%), the time had come to Nordrhein-Westfalen. As the exit polls were just presented, it is clear that the German Pirate Party has achieved its goal and secured seats in a fourth parliament: the exit polls indicate 7.5%, well clearing the five-percent hurdle for entry, and predicting 18 new Pirate Members of Parliament. As the night progresses, and the actual votes are counted, this number will adjust somewhat. But the exit polls are always precise enough to give the end result with at most one percent unit of deviation in either direction. This has a number of interesting ramifications. The immediate question is whether the expected weakening of the FDP, Angela Merkel’s junior coalition partner, will cause Germany’s government to collapse prematurely. That’s still too early to say – and with them staying in both the Schleswig-Holstein and Nordrhein-Westfalen parliaments (exit polls indicate 8.5% here), the risk of a premature collapse has lessened somewhat. So we’re realistically looking at one more state election – Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony) – before Germany, Europe’s most populous country, goes to elect its parliament in late summer of 2013. (Germany is a federation of 16 states, each approximately the size of a more normal European country or a typical American state. The state voting today, Nordrhein-Westfalen, is the most populous of them with about 18 million people.) This leads us to the interesting question – why did Germany of all countries have such breakthrough success with their Pirate Party? I can see five reasons. The first reason is that the German Piratenpartei was long-term from the get-go. Where most pirate parties are started like any internet project – “we’re going to change the world come next weekend” – the Germans knew they would be around for a long time, and invested early in the organizational foundation for that. The second reason is timing and ripples on the water. When the Swedish Piratpartiet had its breakthrough in the European Parliament, and was in media all over the world, the German Piratenpartei was able to exploit that momentum when a local minister named Ursula wanted to create a net censorship to fight CP. T-shirts with the name “Zensursula” were common, zensur being German for censorship. The goverment did not win the narrative on that one, and the idea of censorship was abandoned while the Piratenpartei raked in new members. I’d say that this was the breakthrough in activist critical mass. The third reason is Germany’s federal party support. Having won 1% in the European elections and 2% in the federal elections in 2009 entitled the Piratenpartei to considerable governmental funding, which is paid out to all parties that beat the half-percent mark in elections. This has allowed the Piratenpartei to buy themselves the appearance of an established party out in the streets – their posters and banners are everywhere on paid billboards, as well as on streetlights and more activist-associated locations. But all of it looks professional, yet with a new message. It looks electable, which is key. The fourth reason is the Piratenpartei‘s early broadening of the party platform. In Sweden, we learned the hard way in 2010 that not enough people will vote a party with a narrow platform to the general parliament. The European parliament was fine, but not the Swedish one. While we were busy running an election campaign, the German pirate party were busy discussing if – and if so, how – their program should be broadened. This was rewarded with 15 seats in the Berlin parliament, which leads me to… The fifth reason is Berlin and the breakthrough there. In hindsight, Berlin was the perfect breakthrough location. With its characteristics of a melting pot between the government-suspicious East Europe and the progressive West Europe, mixed with a dash of political forward-thinking in the city culture itself, it would have been an obvious election to bet on for a breakthrough. But when it happened last September, it changed the game – and the media spotlight was taken so well care of, that the Piratenpartei managed to convert the progressive Berlin votes to enough votes in the industrial and traditional Saarland to enter into that parliament too. The Berlin victory of 8.9% was the definite breakthrough into mainstream awareness, and here we are. __________________ PUTIN TRUMP & Netanyahu Will Meet in HELL ..................*SHARKS are Closing in on TRUMP*.......................... *TRUMP WARNS; 'There'll Be a Bloodbath* If I Don't Get Elected'..MAGA - MyAssGotArrested...IT's COMING** PLEASE HELP THIS SITE..Click DONATE & Thanks to ALL Members of ... 1.. THIS SITE IS MORE THAN JUST WAREZ...& TO STOP SPAM-IF YOU WANT TO POST, YOUR FIRST POST MUST BE IN WELCOMES

15-05-12, 02:36	#6
photostill The Enigma Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 9,977 Thanks: 3,009 Thanked 1,524 Times in 928 Posts	Re: Pirate Party Breaks Election Records -UPDATE I've sort of steered clear of political topics simply because I believe I read in the site rules that it shouldn't be discussed. Still, I'm gonna go out on a limb here diverge from this topic with some of the general crap going on this election season in the US and then return to this topic now posted. Both Obama and Romney are trying their best to distance themselves from their past record while at the same time wanting to claim just the pluses as they run against each other. Problem with that is both have enough dead weight in their past records to sink a whale. When you really get down to it, there is not a lot of difference between the two candidates. You really have to ask what the facts are when you hear some of the rhetoric gearing up for this election because there is a lot they neglect to say in their talking points that leads to pointing the guilty finger right back at themselves and their party rather than the way it is expressed. One such I heard the other day blamed Obama for the job situation in the economy but he failed to mention his own party was responsible for killing the funding for the program that was set up to provide jobs. The problem here is what has been going on for the last bunch of election cycles and that's there is no valid candidate to pick from to vote for. Both have been bought and paid for and it matters not which gets into office as far as what will be done in the coming years after; only the flavor of how it is done. The Republican party and all the talk show hosts on radio and tv are having one heck of a time trying to sell Romney. He has a serious deficit when it comes to generating excitement. Even his own party doesn't really want him. The talk shows were saying, "This is it", you have to accept Romney because he's the candidate. Maybe 8 different callers were all saying in essence, "We want someone else". It's a hard sell for either one of them for supporters. What most of this is, is a reflection that the people here in the states have the same opinion as those in other countries such as Greece and France, with Germany and Italy soon to follow in elections. The established parties in power are taking a beating. They are being blamed in each country for the economic conditions now in existence as has happened all through election cycles in the past. Mostly this appears to be because the big finance and mega-corporations are in bed with the governments of each nation. People have had enough. In the case of the US, there isn't any other choice but in the European countries where often you have multiple parties all running on different platforms, there is a choice and it's being made. As I stated earlier in this thread, transparency of government and what it is doing in the name of it's citizens is a biggy. This particular issue is a big driver along with the economic factors in changing the scope of elections. Early signs are that most of the parties in power will take a huge beating there. Here in the states I suspect that will show up as people not voting at all. I personally am happy to see them being thrown out of power. Most of the politicians and their parties were the ones that set up all these circumstances that led to the problems we have today. The one thing that hasn't helped, is the US was dead in the middle of being the cause of many of the economic woes of other countries. __________________ You can help this site, by clicking on the link below to buy a Premium Account. & Thank you for helping us. Click;

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